Curse

Dark Paladin X · Aug 02, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

well, if you think about it, [Castigation Signet] and [Mantra of Inscription] serve great syngery and good energy management (better than [Power Drain] IMO since the signet deals damage and give energy while [Power Drain] simply interrupts, cost energy, and then give energy). Since, the greatest problem with monks is e-management.

Winterclaw · Aug 02, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Too bad, really. Monks are support. They always have been, they always will be. If smiting gets buffed so they can be damage dealers, then every other class should be able to do something they weren't meant to do.

If you're tired of being support and want to do damage, roll a warrior (or an ele if you play with stupid people who believe they do the best damage in the game).

Have a warrior.

Being support is fine, but if you have a damage line, you should be able to do some reasonable damage with it. If they don't want monks doing a lot of damage, I'm okay with that just so long as they don't have a line called smiting and then fill it with ill-concieved skills.

Don't get me wrong, there is a little usability for that line, but it needs to be a little more than SioJ, smite hex, smite condition, and RoD.

LifesRestorer · Aug 02, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50

i'm pretty sure the smiting line made the early generations of 55 monking available, seeing as secondaries had to be used to not get interrupted rather than to deal damage.

garethporlest18 · Aug 02, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I think some damage buffs to the line are in order, WoC should have a recharge or damage buff, Bane Signet should be upped about 10-12 points, and have the recharge about 12-15. Banish about 10 points. Signet of Rage and Mystic should have damage upped a bit, or at the very least changed around so they do more damage than they do now. Shield of Judgement should be reworked. Ray of Judgement should be re-worked, 15-20 second recharge, remove the disabling effect, or do one or the other at the very least, maybe up the cast time to 2 seconds to go with the shorter recharge.

Symbol of Wrath should be reduced to 15-20s recharge. Smite down to 8 recharge, Holy Strike down to 5s recharge. Smite Hex 5-8 second recharge. Defender's Zeal would be a good skill if monsters didnt' die so fast. So maybe change that skill around to when a monster hits with an attack you gain 4..12..16 energy and this hex ends or something of the sort.

Sure it's a support line in PvP, but I don't think it was ever meant for a support line in PvE seeing as monks already have 2 main support lines. So PvE wise I think it should turn to damage and I don't know what you guys read but monks do damage big time against evil. Just because they're holy doesn't mean they shouldn't have insane damage capabilities. Not saying they should be overpowered in this game like that or anything, but just saying in general.

Tyla · Aug 02, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

^
To be honest, giving Symbol of Wrath and it's counterpart the ability to be used on a target would be a better idea.

Lord Sojar · Aug 02, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Smiter Boon + Smite hex/condition + balths pendulum + RoD = hax

Smiting is quite alright.

And smiting monks and dervish rip apart undead. Take a smiter with you into Shards of Orr in HM. Hell, take that and a balth dervish and watch the mayhem. Stuff just EXPLODES.

Makkert · Aug 02, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

The knock down is nice but really isn't needed, a lot of dmg is needed though in PvE.

I stopped reading after this...

Gun Pierson · Aug 02, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

I stopped reading after this...

You don't have to agree with me, but if you can't explain your view, don't bother. This is a discussion. Wanne talk about knockdown and damage in PvE? That's cool, I'm all ears.

@Garethporlest18: I think we're on the same line there.

Age · Aug 02, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

people already explained it :

Smiting is a great support line. Not a raw damage line.

I am not complaining my warrior can heal better with secondary profession skills than with primary skills, now am I ? why ? easy, warriors aren't supposed to be healing. Monks are not a damage class, get over it.

I took a smiter in RA and id really well with it and took down some Warriors I go the idea from poster over at The Guild Hall.It worked well.

Arkantos · Aug 03, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Have a warrior.

Being support is fine, but if you have a damage line, you should be able to do some reasonable damage with it. If they don't want monks doing a lot of damage, I'm okay with that just so long as they don't have a line called smiting and then fill it with ill-concieved skills.

Don't get me wrong, there is a little usability for that line, but it needs to be a little more than SioJ, smite hex, smite condition, and RoD.

But smiting isn't a damage line. It's a support line with offensive capability. The name of the line is irrelevant, what the lines meant to do in the game is all that matters.

Also, there's more to the line than those 4 skills.

In PvP, there's (not mentioning skills that synergize with smiting):

[Balthazars Aura][Balthazar's Pendulum][Bane Signet][Castigation Signet][Holy Wrath][Judge's Insight][Reversal of Damage][Signet of Judgment][Signet of Rage][Smite Condition][Smite Hex][Strength of Honor]

In PvE there's all of the above, and a few more useful skills. Quite a few more than 4, don't you think?

Quote:

Sure it's a support line in PvP, but I don't think it was ever meant for a support line in PvE seeing as monks already have 2 main support lines. So PvE wise I think it should turn to damage and I don't know what you guys read but monks do damage big time against evil. Just because they're holy doesn't mean they shouldn't have insane damage capabilities. Not saying they should be overpowered in this game like that or anything, but just saying in general.

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense. Smiting wasn't meant as a support line in PvE because monks have 2 other support lines? They have the exact same in PvE as they do in PvP.

Monks being holy has nothing to do with them not supposed to be doing damage. It has to do with monks being made as a support class. Monks were meant to be support and not be damage the same way as warriors were meant to be damage and not be support. If you give monks in PvE a way to do big damage, I want my warrior to be able to be a healer in PvE.

Tiny Killer · Aug 03, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

I have not gone heal/protect in over a year. The smite line is just fine, in my opinion.

garethporlest18 · Aug 03, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense. Smiting wasn't meant as a support line in PvE because monks have 2 other support lines? They have the exact same in PvE as they do in PvP.

Monks being holy has nothing to do with them not supposed to be doing damage. It has to do with monks being made as a support class. Monks were meant to be support and not be damage the same way as warriors were meant to be damage and not be support. If you give monks in PvE a way to do big damage, I want my warrior to be able to be a healer in PvE.

When the game first started out, I do not think Smiting was meant to be a support line, seeing as it had more damage dealing skills than it did support skills. Indirect and direct. It seems to have been changed into a support line now and I'm saying it shouldn't be a support line and should be directed more towards damage dealing.

Monks should be able to heal you, protect you from damage and do some damage to the enemy, right now it's just not enough and a few of the skills need to be buffed in some way, I'm not saying the damage should be massive, just a tiny bit more than it is now and..some of the skills need to be more useful, like the suggestions I gave in my first post.

Then again, the smiting line was probably meant as offensive support, seeing as most of the skills do damage in some way but target allies. I still think that makes it a damage line, and one that should be buffed in some places. I say this only for PvE because, PvE is not as much of a team game as it used to be. I know people like being content with what little they have, but you should always try to get more.

Gun Pierson · Aug 03, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Exactly, I started out in pre-sear with Bane Signet, Banish and Retribution three years ago. Which is zero support, but direct and indirect damage. You know why? Cause healing and protection and divine are already support. As we had a lot of skills that target an enemy back in the days, it also meant the line didn't get a lot of the divine favor bonus. Which is normal, as it prooves it's an offensive line and was meant to be one.

Izzy changed it into a support role cause he hates smiting. He throws in smiter's boon, smite hex and smite condition and now a lot of players think it's always meant to be a support line. He can fool a lot of you, but not this old timer.

Btw, I know he hates smiting because a dev told me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The name of the line is irrelevant, what the lines meant to do in the game is all that matters.

Can't believe you wrote that. It's like a black dye giving a white colour and you're ok with that as the role of dye is to colour.

Avarre · Aug 03, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Healing Signet should be made to target any ally and buffed, so that Warriors have better support. It is only fair because Guild Wars is a game clearly designed around single-character-capability balance.

Seriously. This is serious.

TheHaxor · Aug 03, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Signet of Rage should have damage upped a bit

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

thanks for making me laugh

smiter's boon is dumb and way too effective, but the actual smiting skills are fine with exception of signet of rage and maybe SoH stacking with conjure

DarkNecrid · Aug 03, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Izzy changed it into a support role cause he hates smiting. He throws in smiter's boon, smite hex and smite condition and now a lot of players think it's always meant to be a support line. He can fool a lot of you, but not this old timer.

[Smite Hex] is a Core skill.

around · Aug 03, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Can't believe you wrote that. It's like a black dye giving a white colour and you're ok with that as the role of dye is to colour.

It would be irritating for a day then people would know that white is the new black.

Giving damage options to monks is dumb; can't anyone remember SoMW spike? That shit was seriously seriously lame.

Gun Pierson · Aug 03, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

[Smite Hex] is a Core skill.

True and you get a cookie for that. Nevertheless it doesn't change a thing to what I was explaining.

Reversal of damage: Nightfall
Judge's intervention: Nightfall
Smite condition: Eye of the North

Smiter's boon (divine): Eye of the north

@ around: you're right, that's why we left pvp out of the discussion. I think that's ok, since we have a pvp/pve split now. PvE has the setting now to give smite the role it was meant to be.

But uhm, wouldn't it be more logical if black dye would just give a black colour? And that's the whole point of it. Smite shouldn't be support in PvE.

DarkNecrid · Aug 03, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

True and you get a cookie for that. Nevertheless it doesn't change a thing to what I was explaining.

I disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Izzy changed it into a support role cause he hates smiting. He throws in smiter's boon, smite hex and smite condition and now a lot of players think it's always meant to be a support line. He can fool a lot of you, but not this old timer.

He never changed it. It has always had support skills since the start of the game, he just enhanced that part of the line over time to become an even better support role. It was always meant to be a support line with a bit of light damage, that is all it has ever been. That is all it will ever be.

Gun Pierson · Aug 03, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I disagree.

He never changed it. It has always had support skills since the start of the game, he just enhanced that part of the line over time to become an even better support role. It was always meant to be a support line with a bit of light damage, that is all it has ever been. That is all it will ever be.

Oh really, make me a viable support smite build with only core and prophecies' smite skills. I have some protect and healing builds from that time that outclass the smiting support role by far, because imo it was not meant to start out as a support role back then.

A bit of light damage? Balthasar's Aura (pre nerf), symbol of wrath, were pretty big dmg dealers back in the days.

On a side note, we didn't have AoE scatter back then and smite was used by monks to do crazy damage, not to support. Shield of judgment, another big damage dealer. Zealot's Fire (pre nerf). All from that era. AoE scatter made those skills less usefull nowadays. And it's why smiting is now seen as a support role. And that's a shame as the line deserves more than that.